tv Reliable Sources CNN September 12, 2010 11:00am-12:00pm EDT
choose to play as a member of any team, the taliban or the united states. so you can be a taliban member and kill american soldiers. the u.s. miletitary is so upset about this that the game has been banned from being. sold on most u.s. army bases. the good news i is here's a situation in which america cou have a decisive victory over the taliban. too bad it's just a game. things to all of yo for being part of my program this week. i will see you next week. stay tuned for "reliable sources. the magnifying power of the media is a powerful tool and can also be a dangerous weapon. how did one cookie pastor's plans to burn a bunch of korans beco an international sensation? why did journalists fan the flames of anti-muslim hatred by playing up the bizarre antics of terry jones? should he have been on every morning show. the president meets the thpress -- he head do more of that, you know, but can't escape
questions about the koran burning and more in manhattan. and cnn and piers morgan. rves as a televised why on talent shows. how much do people know about his controversial tabloid past? we'll have a fullreport. and david west resigns as president of abc news after cutting a quarter of the staff. can the broadcast networks overcome tough times and sinking ratings? i'm howard kurtz, and this is "reliable sources." it wasn't very long ago that terry jones was an obscure pastor in gainesville, florida, who had written a book called "islam is the htdevil." and he might have remained in obscurity except he came one a dangerous stunt, a provocative stunt, an inflamulmatory stunt,e would observe the anniversary of 9/11 by burning a pile of korans. it b started slly but this started to get attention in. july he spoke to cnn'shy rick
sanchez. >> why would you want to do this to 1.5billion people as you say in the world by burning their most sacred book? that's crazy. >> well, for one thing, for us, the book is not sacred. >> but it is for them. it is for them. >> by us doing this action -- >> so if i don't --] [ all talking at once ] >> this week just as the sntroversy over the so-called mosque in manhattaneemed to be winding down, the media gave terrjones a mighty mega phone. when david patraeus to he "wall street journal" that such a bonfire might endanger ouamerican troops, the echo chamber got even louder. >> before this week, most people had never heard of pastor terry jones. >> now one florida church is planning to burn copies of the koran on the anniversary of 9/11 this weekend. >> today the pope called on him to stop. and we asked the pasr, what would jesus do? >> coming up, a psycho pastorn florida is turning 9/11 into
burn koran day. >> some kooks in florida are plotting an insulting display agains muslims this week. >> why burn the koran? so that people will say the name of their congregation and their pastor on television, which personally i can't stomach. >> do youreally think that sus christ, if he were here today, would say, pastor, go burn that holy book? >> absolutely. >> jesus christ would s that? >> absolutely. >> by midweek, abc's george stephanopoulos was asking the president to weigh in. >> i wonder what this must feel like from behind your desk. you're president of the united states, you have to deal with the fallout. this pastor has 30 followers iny his church. does it make you feel helpless or angry? >> well, it is frustrating. now on the other hand, we are a government of laws. and soe we have to abide by thoe laws. >> the story got even stranger when jones said he was calling off the book burning in exchange
for a deal to move the controversial islamic center in new york away from ground zero, except there was no deal, just more live coverage, more stories,e na morinterviews. finally, the pastor said yesterday there would be no book d,burning, which he announced, naturally enough, on the "today" .show so are the media to blame for turning this revolting spectacle into an international circus? joining hius, washington bureau chief. founder of fromforum.com and a former speechwriteser for president bush. and lauren ashburn, presidents of ashburn mead dwra and former managing editor of "usa today li." i ask for a firm answer. why did the media lever so much attention on one eccentric pastor with a couple dozen followers for this pathetic stunt he pulled? >> because when you have the mosque controversy in new york, you have one fact, when you have that plus the book burning, you have a trend. and that -- that justifies the "time" magazine cover and that
allows people to covayerhe mosque story the way they want to cover it. >> lauren ashburn? >> ratings. ratings, ratings, ratings, ratings, right? why don't we cover president obama's presser? why don't we talk about that? kind of not that interesting. i mean, what's interesting here is oh, my gosh, here's this guy with 50 people who follow him, and he's going to burn the koran. >> and without the networks putting terry jones on tv, without all these newspaper stories, david corn, it's a non-story. >> i disagree. you know, it's not a problem, this is what happens with our new media. you don't need to go threw cnn, msnbc, cbs, abc, to get your word out i you're a crazykook with a match book and a koran. by tweeting like he did in early july, he got a few people who pay attention to write about it and e-mail alerts. before you know it, people in other parts of the world are paying attention to this. >> not in the united states -- >> not in the united states. >> yes. >> so their opposition is ginning up. and when general patraeus was asked about it in the "wall
tst et journal" interview, i wasn't because it was getting lots of coverage here. it had gotten some. already there were plans for gigantic demonstrations in afghanistan, indonesia, and so this shows in some way the meelsewhere. helplessness. we all think this guy's a kook and shouldn't get the attention. even though we used to complain about gatekeepers in the media, we'd like the gatekeepers to shut on him, but that can't work anymore. >> that pa trace' people, the pentagon pushed that to media outlets. people felt that elevated the orsty. why can't we serve as gateskeepers? every newsroom every day gets a call about a small demonstration here, somebody with a crazy sign there, there's a hostage tape from some country. we don't run all of that. >> and we don't run suicides, either, right? people who want attention -- somebody who's going to jump off a bridge, they want that attention. do we cover it? we absolutely do n. >> but there's a pre-existing neighborative. there were people -- narrative. there were people who wanted to write about anti-islamic
prejudice. one incident does not prove your point to do. this was seized upon in the united states, it was necessary, it was valuable. >> so do you think that the so-called liberal media pumped this up because here was a christian leader, smallooime one to be sure, who looked like a crazy? bigot? >> i don't think this was -- >> you're saying there was a politiracal element? >> the people who track this stuff say there is a rise in anti-islam activity gog on. and you can tie that to the controversy overhe so-called mosque or islamic center ornot. but it's interesting, one of the -- >> let me track this stuff -- we track this with the fbi and the fbi numbers don't say such a thing. they come out 18 months late anyway. >> i want to talk about fox news. i was surprised at first bill o'reilly playing this down, barely talking about it. i thought he's not a liberal loon. turns out fox had deliberate energy not to give oxygen to the story and some said fox had it right. >> so did a.p. a.p. came out on thursday with a
memo from the deputy managing editor that said we are not going to putdi auo or images out about this. >> let me ask but that -- >> wait. wait. we are going to do one spot story a day. >> okay. >> hey, context -- >> fox says if this had gone through yesterday, if there had been a bonfire in gainesville, a.p., fox would not show pictures. cnn originally was going to cover it then said they wouldn't show pictures. can't you cover that? wouldn't the organizations be accused of suppressing the news? au now there's also a problem now because of the -- because you've got an obligation. >> it ul ydn't mattebecause it would be on youtube and people who wanted to see it would see it, it would be seenpe by the people whose passions are inflamed. t i think in the fox news case because they went so heavy on the so-called mosque controversy, this gave them the chance in their mind also to look reasonable. you know, i do think that a lot of the controversy over the islamic center is fueled by anti-islamic prejudice. not all of it, but at the rall
there were people shouting "kill all muslims." not just anti-mosque, an i islam. there's a lot of that whipped up into there controversy. byth sang we're not going to show one nut job, they could act responsible. >> back in july when terry jones had tweeted he was going do this and it got attention,er most americans were aware of this, we saw the clip at the top of the show. rick sanchez putting him on cnn. should he have done that? why does terryne jos warrant any airtime? >> it is exciting, and that is a tabloidy show. and you hope -- there's a part i think of every journalist's mind that sort of hopes for a big global reactio one of the things i think we ought to be thinking a little bit about, though, is what is the friends here that is being set? -- t precedents here that is beinset? if there are things that are not to be discussed, solomon rushdie's book, not to be discussed, are the danish cartoons not to be shown some we can all agree in condemning pastor jones a needlessly
inflammatory. but sometimes people are needfully inflammatory. >> holdn here. argument is that he didn't deserve much if at all because he is essentially a fringe character. somebody with more of a standing, more stature does something to upset people in afghanistan, i'm not saying we shouldn't cover that. i think it was a case of media lpracte of the most irresponsible sort. like the balloon boy hoax but with serious consequences. >> it's identical. >> people are mad, people saying people are really mad these organizations for what they did this week. >> but it's great that we're sitting here, that every week after week you're turnin a critical lens on the media, but how many times are we going to sit here and fall for balloon boy and go after this guy? why aren't we challenging the heads of networks and the heads of cable divisions to say, all u right, i want to find out who exactly made that decision to put that person on the air and why did you to it? it because somebody at msnbc had it and you had to beat them? did you think, oh, my gosh,
ratesings? let's figure out who makessi th decisions and put policies in place so there is some context. >> i think you're rht in that we spend -- the media spends so much more time on this issue, but it also had become an ternational event in can people were rioting and -- >> no, no, i don't believe -- >> hold on. [ all talking at once ] >> there was a "new york times" story in the last week of august, it still didn't get much action until the patraeus comment in the "wall street journal" -- >> but i still think you have a problem here of trying to keep a lid on some -- i think in terms of proportionality it shouldn't get this attention. but i'm saying no matter what you would decide if you were running cnn, howie, i don't think it would have had a big pact on keeping this guy off the screen. this crazy guy off the screen. agreement, this agreement to -- no to cover it has dangerous potential. we did go through this befwsore with every news organization in america agreed ton show the allow cartoons, ton people to see what those -- note
to allow pople to see wha those are about. that seems wrong. that was information that people were entided etitle -- entitl to, and that was a voice of suppression. >> i'm not calling for collusion. 'm calling for individual news organizations to make decisions regardless of what everyone else is doing. let me play in is tape here. on friday, and this is when terry jones was starting to waver, maybe he wouldn't do it, maybe if he saw the imam in new yorkthis guy was on every morning show. i thought the toughest was by meredith vieira on the "today" show. take aook. >> when you incite hatred and bigotry, don't you expect this kind of outcome? you've incited this. >> we done. we do not feel responsible. we did not pull the trigger -- >> there are people of all face, sir, who today are calling you intolerant, bigoted, crazy, what are you? >> i am just a man who is trying
to do what god had told us to did. sh >> so you're running the "today" t ow, would you put him on? >> absolutely not. i wouldn't have put him on in which at the point we are losing lives and people -- the's a chance for this to turn into somethi extremely violent, then you have an obligation to stop it. in this instance the government saved the media. i mean, the media is the one that put this guy in charge. put him out there. and then all of a sudden the government has to come in and say, okay, we're going to fix the -- >> you had secretary gates -- >> yes. >> you seem most uncomfortable at this table with the notion of making a deliberrats decision that this is not worth it. >> yes, i know what's going to happen next time. >> tell us, david. >> i'm with you. obviously this guy is a dismissible, this is not a story you should not have made a fuss over it. i am mindful of the danish cartoon story when the gatekeepers did keep the gates and did so wrongly. next time there may be something
more serious that is disliked by some people in therl islamic wod and there may be american media collusion saying this person should not speak, this message should be silenced, and to have the president and the secretary of defense weighing in, i understand why they did it. i -- in this circumstance they were right. but next time they won't be right. to be more careful here. >> what is wrg withew a.p.'s view of this which is let's limit it to a story a day. this is a small guy. what's wrong with that? >> the media criticism, the answer is almost always proportionality. the time we spen on this discussing -- >> let me show you how "morn joe" handled it. mika brzezinski turne it over to john meacham who told pastor jones this. >> i would simply appeal to you as a fellow christian that the course you've suggested is going to be incredibly dangerous and would ask you to desist in the
name of new testamentl theology >> well said, john meacham and pastor terry jon es, we appeal to you to listen to that. don't really need to hear anything else. so thanks. >> didn't let him say a word. >> we create this monster. we created this.re you know, here, oka we're the one who put him on, now we're the one -- we'reon begging him n do it. >> so even cutting him off like that is -- is fueling the flames? >> of course it is. >> but there was some responsibility. yesterday at the rally against the islamic center in downtown new york, there were at least one person, someone sent me a photo, burning a koran. and you didn't see that plastered over the media. you didn't see people interviewing this fellow. >> a positive note in which to end. i've got to get a break. when we come back the president meets the press and can'tscape questions and the melodrama about the mosq. well, i made you a reservation at the sushi place around the corner. well, in that case, i better get back to these invoices... which i'll do right after making your favorite pancakes.
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when president obama held a news conference on friday, abc's jake tapper asked the question about pastor terry jones but not by name. let's take a look. >> were you concerned at all when the administration had secretary of ges call this pastor in florida, that you were elevating somebody who is clearly from the fringe? my hope is that this individualon prays on it and refrains from doing it. but i'm also commander in chief,
and we are saying today-- we are seeing today riots in kabul, riots in afghanistan that reaten our young men and women in uniform. >> lauren asurn, i was relieved that the pastor didn't dominate the news conference, it of mostly about the economy. but that became the story, what everyone wrote and talked about the next day. >> how wie, gosh, why didn't yo lead this show with the economics and president obama as press -- >> because it's got inshort shift from our colleagues in the media business. >> i'm saying, here we are talking about him, and you're ha,ppy he yidn't dominate it, yt he did. yet you didn't lead with the economic policy that president obama lid out. >> let me protect howie for a second of the percent of the issue was i was at the presser, and the president didn't say anything new about his economic pocies. i mean, i think a should have a continuum discussion about what -- >> go ahead, david. >> the president also dropped a hint of a way the story a been seriously undercovered, which is
what is the method of transmission by which an act in florida become a riot in kabul? that is not a spontaneous process. there are people in afghanistan who do this and make a point of it. that's what happened with the danish cartoons. let's cover that transmission, though, and the malicious people interested in running it. >> you did write about the economic portion. >> i did. >> from mother joan, and your headline was "more drama, obama." >> my point of -- >> you're a theater critic, you didn't like the fact that he den get wound up when talking about the onomy. >> what iwe said was he showed lot of passion and conviction, sica president has to do to be successful. when he talked not so much about thabe pastor but talking about e islamic center d religious freedom. i thought that was wonderful. i made the point that when he talks about the economy and trying to connect andhi convinc people that his policies are best, didn't have much passion. i think that is a problem for any politician. >> i'm not trying to attack howie, and i would love to be invited back. and invite me back, pretty please. my point is that we just fuel
this. it f it's exciting, if it's about burning a koran, we're going to cover it. if it's about economic policy, gosh, he didn't break any news. >> which happens to be the subject most people care about. thanks for joining us. comi up in the second part of "reliable sources," piers morg get the next version of larry king. which version? the tabloid editor, talen show judge, the guy w hangs out with celebrities? plus as david westont step down as president of abc news, we'll talk to a former cbs new president about struggling broadcast news operations. and later, creatived thho e and the blogger who shared his medical emergency with the world. i didn't miss a premium payment for 10 years. the minute i got sick, i lost my insurance. not anymore. america's healthcare reforms change lives for the better. to find out how it can help you, visit us at americasfairhealthcare.org
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he's a superstar in his cotry and a controversial one at that. in this country he's best known for judging singers and performers alongside sharon osbourne and howie mandell. now piersorgan is about to become far better known as the man who will succeed larry king. but how much does america know about this chap beyond the fact this he hams it up on "america's got talent"? >> well, look, the three of you are three of the most disgusting thing i've ever seen in my life. >> all right. >> however, that doesn't mean i didn't enjoy the act. it was repulsively compelling. look, it'sbeenu, great watching you, but i'm going have to say no. >> well, piers morgan of one editor of rupert hemurdoch's "ns of the world," the sensational
london tabloid that has reporter conduct sting such as recent es against sah ferguson by lying about theitoridentity. then he became editor of "the mirror" and of eventually sacked for publishing photos of british soldier supposedly boo lly abusi prisoners at abu ghraib, a home. now he's talking to gordon brown, talking to him about his daughter and what happened a few days after her birth. >> i remember that time very well, ssgordon. i remember the press conference you gave whiche saw where you. were so happy. and i talked to you in that period. lookingth back on that, tell me first about after jennifer of first born and obviously she was premature and small. but you were very excid, weren't you? >> we thought everything was fine. probably after a wee sarah and i -- she of was in special care turned to the doctor and said,
she's not going to live, is she? and he said, no, i don't think so. she's not going live. >> joining us now to talk about piers morgan, his reputation back home and his future at cnn, emily bell, founder of the media guardian section of london's n" "guardian" newspaper, now a director of columbia university's digital journalism program. also in new york, tom leonard, for "the daily mail" and former editor for "the daily telegraph." in washington, media cric for the "baultimore sun" who blog e z on tv. and you know piers morgan from his dayss a tabloid journalist. explain a little bit more about what happened at the "mirror" with those aback to you grab photos and what did that d to -- the abu ghraib photos and what did that to do to his reputation? >> there was already a question mark over his journalistic judgnt because he had had a previous spat over share trading on his city desk. ee or four years later, you have these photographs which appeared on the front page of "the mirror" apparently of british soldiers
abusing iraqi proners. and i t was in the wake of abu ghraib. and it was -- if you like an honest mistake bause these we not hoax by the paper, they were sold oor given t the paper. but "the mirror" of hoaxed, and i think it was a two strikes and you're out situation for morgan. i think it was just at the time it was too sensitive for him to really sort of maintain his job, particularly after the first, what was known as the scandal. >> right. i want to talk to tom leonard about that. although by the way,ne morning never quite admitted that the pictures were fake. he think it's an open question. what happened with this financial scandal where i guess two columnists for his newspaper had written about a company that he bought stock in? >> well, i mean, what had happened was initially is that it turned out that he b bought shares inny a computer company few days before they wre tipped boy two of his financial column sts who wrote a
edty "ci slickedrs." it later turned out actually he had bought rather more shares than was initially admitted by the owners at "the mirror." both of the journalist, the city journalists ended up being sent, one did time in prison. piers morgan got away, kelp his job. and lived to fight another day. and as emily said, you know, thanhe lon after came the abu ghraib pictur >> about six year ago. let me turn to - >> faked picture. >> exactly. let me turn to david. as i mentioned at the top, he like to hang out with celebrities. i want to show you tape of one example of that. >> i can think of allthsorts of things i've always wanted to do. eadrms that might come true. and you know when, in vegas, they do.gh right, paris? >> uh-huh. ves rocks. >> what do you think of vegas? >> i love vegas.
i've been coming here my whole life. >> so my questi is simply, what does the hiring of piers morgan do to the cnn branch? >> let me back up on the "city slickers" thing. it was 20,000 pounds -- that's a lot. and when you couple that kind of ethical mistake or ethical transgression with the fact that you're pairing him with eliot spitzer, there's a sinn synergy that's not good. he likes posing, likes being with eb tcelrities. i think this is just -- the word this comes to mind for him is hot dog. he's a hot dog. he is not -- he is not a seriou guy. now i don't say you have tput a serious person into that slot. but this is a guy also, in this inrvteiew when he was named this week, he said, well, i'm doing all these other jobs, but if something big breaks i can in the studio and do the show.
howie, that's not how you do show that's going to be successful. he's all over the place. i think he's just t kind of guy who's kind of a blustery phony, who comes on and just blows his way into the o room. >> i'll reserve judgment on that. by the way, there's no law in television againsteing a hot dog. emily, how d piers morgan from his tabloid years to being a pretty successful tv celebty in britain? >> well, i think that was something of a mystery to all of us, actually, even to pier as an editor. after he was sacked from "the mirror," he had a very unsuccessful business venture for a short time, actual wchith rupert murdoch's son-in-law. an interesting, small fact here. and then he sort of don'reemerg. don't forget that because as a tabloid editor in britain he would know l the studio bosses very well. he did have a hotline to all the top celebrities in britain. and he does have a certain sort of charismatic -- two side to piers morgan. one is slightly petulant,
doesn't have much of a sense of humor about himself, ltle bit mean. the other side to him is very charismatic, quite smart. i don't think -- he's not stupid. and he is a very, very r.od interviewer. so he was picked up by i-tv and appeared on "britain's got talent," which is if you like the forum to "america's got talent." for those of us of my genera tion, tom's generation, i think we're slightly surprised to see pieve reinventing himself as a tv celebrity. >> right. >> and particularly he's broken -- in america, which so many have tried and failed to do. >> it's a tough market. thfact that he likes to hang out with celebrities, this he's become a celebrity himself, it doesn't necessaly mean he's not a journalist, does it? does it? >> your right. obviously hi background of as a show business reporter, d he was the firstof the show business reporters to be -- to get one their -- to be made editor of one of the fleet
street red top titles. but yeah, he edited "the mirror." and "the mirror" is a tabloid newspaper, but it's got news coverage, as well. and also to be fair to him, he tried to turn it around. he tried to make i into a more sawyer paper.er he hired serious columnist for it. in a bid to tr and take it more up market. his background is not entirely -- this is a guy who made living very early on from rubbing shoulders with celebrities. literally, i mean, this is a man who pioneered a certain type of journalism wre te idea of to be photographed with the stars. >> by the way, david, morgan -- in a conference call with reporter when he was called a non-journalist, he said i've6 interviewed tony blair 56 times. he did something that i liked. he took shots at bill o'reilly, keith olberman, and he said, in
this show he not going to be spewing his own opinions. >> that's what made me say honestly -- i didn't say hot dog loosely. he said that about bill o y,trie and it proves to me he doesn't watch bill o'reilly because bilu o'reilly doesn't talk about the competition. bill o'reillyth considers himse so far above the competition, he would never really -- >> he talks about the lunatic at n -- lunatics at nbc. >> no, he said bill talks about keith -- he does not talk about keith. he didn't watch him. that's what i mean about walki if front of a camera and saying stuff without doing your homework. that's exactly what drove me to that point. >> emily, you know, larry king to be fair interviews a lot of celebrities, so that is part of w.e job for this kind of sho but i want to close by asking you about his interviewing skills because we saw earlier him talking to gordon brown about a personal tragedy. and he also interviewed nick he klegg, n the deputy prime minister in britain, and got him to talk about h many women he had slept b with.
there's got to be some talent there. to -- ie rlly is able think that he got good reviews in the u.k. for his early evening interview show. i think that he bring actually a new generation of viewers, potentially to cnn. you know, it think that this i kind of quite a smart move for him actually. a you don't want to hire another larry king because there nobody who can really replace him. they've not hired enough larry king. and i think that it will just be sort of a test of his mettlep see whether or not he can step up. >> and he's welcome on this program to talk about his career once he comes to cnn. emily, tom, david, stick around. up next, david weston quit as abc news president. we'll look at the record of a man who presided over deep cutbacks while giving top anchor jobs to diane sawyer. mbers, ands is spending too much money on printing. i'd like to put you in charge of cutting costs. calm down. i know at it is not your job. what i'm saying... excuse me?
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there isn't a single program on thabz doesn't bear the imprint of david westin. he picked diane sawyer to anchor "world news" and put george stephanopoulos on "good morning america." he gave the old job to and moved amanpour m chris cuomo to 20s 20s and eplaced martin basheer at "nightline." hewi clashed with businesses at disney about financial decisions. one quarter the staff was cut, a painful reduction for everyone involved.
what does westin's successor face along with his counterparts at the other broadcast news operations? joining us in new york, happen drew hayward, former presidents of cbs news, working as a media ensultant. broadcast editor of ca ble magazine. and david still with me here in washington. testin lasted 13 years, a littlt bit longer than but at cbs. does there come point where all the budget cutting and belt-tightening just wears you down? >> i can't spoke for david, but of course, it's one of the difficult aspects of the job. you're trying to manage a current business that's verycalling and facing a new competitive environment in a responsible way. you're trying to maintain the quality and integries of network news and meet corporate business standards. at a certain points that does become hard. you're like the bull rider at the rodeo. you're judged by as much as how long you're on the bull as your style. >> do you believe that david westin was push or perhaps
nudged by diz no's chief secondive and other disney -- disney's chief executive and other disney executi >> there's no question there was a meeting between th television group and sweeney. and whether the final rupture - iger was a supporter. but whether the final rupture came with the decision to put christiane amanpour into "this week" is speculation. what we do know is that westin provided over a brutal 25ct% stf reduction, and perhaps westin's osses and westin himself decided that it was best to have someone in there that wasn't tainted by those brutal cuts. it was painful for everyone involved. d>>avid, he went through peter jennings' deaths, ted koppel moving on, bob woodruff's injury, charlieibson's retirement, did he keep the news division fairly strong? >> i think he did. i think in your pie wheisn you wrotabout it this week you talked about him being snakebits a little bit early on when he tried to make woodruff and
vargas. and that was a bold move. i remember it. it made page 1 in a lot of twpapers not because there was new network president. that's not whaitt se used to be but because he said new anchors for the digital age and he was talking about all the platforms. and he was ahead of the curve in that way. and if that had worked for him, i think it would have been different. but when woodruff was seriously injured, vargas went on ternity leave, and he had to go back to charlie gibson. gibson came through, really came through and did a great job of settling that place down. but charlie gibson wasson line. i remember doing a piece on the anchorman blogs, and when i got to abc, they were like, well, charlie -- he's nt a digital guhey. but it was the opposite of what westin was trying to do. so he had problems, and he managed those well. i think he did a good job. >> and on that point andrew hayward, one of the things a ws president has to do is keep high-priced stars happy. david westin had a deal with diane and barbara and charlie and stephanopoulos.
>> yes, of course. that is part of the job. and that's probably the best t publicized part of the job. the harder part itan seems to m and david was terrific at that. the harder part is to innovate while also managing the business. to dave's point, david certainly foresanew a future where news consumers would not be looking to network programming as itow exists for their prime resource of news or even a regular source of news. and all news leaders now have to figure out how to engage a generation that's -- that is completely different habits of news companies and no longer looking to news authorities. the model that moved from one to many, the classic voice of god model to one of many. a though you suited up for a medieval joust and found yourself in a hockey game. >> and andrew, you have to do this with in abc's case, 25% less staff. in other words, fewer bodies, and yet you've got to be more crtive at a time when the particularly younger people are watching less television news. >> true, howie. but i ink that that's part
of -- as brutala it is for the people who lose their jobs and we've gone through waves and it's always horble, i to think there has to be a realignment of costs. these businesses grew up to fight yesterday's war at a time when everything the networks did was difficult. going to find stories, filming them, then ta ping them, editin them, distributing them, all of that was very complex. now it's easy and can be done by a college student or even high scol student with a laptop and a twitter account. so i think you do have a reorientation of the cost structe that has to happen as painful as it is for the legacyw business. >> lots of new competitors. nbc, of course, has c msnbc. but abc and cbs have expensive news divisions, yet they don't have a cable outlet. you're always hearing rumors that abc might team one bloomberg or cnn and cbs are going to combine, then it never seems to happen. wa right. and the issues there e ways control. who's going to have editorial control. and i talked to westin back in july, and he denied that abc
news was in any capital t as he put it, talks about a merger with bloomborerg. but we have seen more and more of these news-sharing arrangements. i mean, abc has one withnhk in japan, with the bbc in england. to andrew's point, what's chging is these programs, each of them have to earn their keep. the corporate structure is such that there are no more handout m what we're going to see is no more multimillion dollar anchors. what we've already seen is more skype interviews. less investigations, and more n. and i think at's just going to continue, and the contraction will continue until we get to a point where the news, theis sol broadcast news divisions as we know them will go away. >> all right. we want to pick up on that point. i've got to t a break so we can pay some bills. we'll focus on the evening newscasts when we come back.
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newscatsts. that's cllectively a hit show by any standar i think the answer is that what used to happen, is that younger people would start watching the they got to be their parents age is not happening anymore so the evening news will ve to appeal to a certain fringe of the audiee or a certain part of the audience but networks will have to find other ways to engage vwers who never intend to watch it. it's a challenging problem. >> and what's interesting is that katie, diane d brian are the biggest stars at their networks, but diane sawyer undoubtedly made more money for abc in the morning than she does in t news anchor chair. >> absolutely. the morning shows on all of the networks support the news-gathering operation, which is terribly expensive as we all know. and the evening news has always been a loss leader. and so, you know, but they've a symbolism. ey are the evening news anchors are the face of the network. but, you know, the symbolism, pride of place, these are all
quaint notions trotted out 20, 30 years ago en the parenter networks were rolling in e. revenue. and that's no longer the case. >> that's no longer the case. david, it's still the biggest game in town bu everybody calls them dinosaurs and writes their premature obituaries for the evening news. >> 20 million tually watched last week. that's a pretty good audience. hayward was one of the guys who figured out way tomo amor ties costs of evening news. i think if networks do that innovative thinking can keep the evening newses on the air for a while longer and i would hate to lose them for this reason. they are rapidly becoming the last stion of journalism on television and that's a huge loss when that goes awa >> we're going to go away right now. andrew hayward, david, marissa, thanks for joining us.
digging into the secretive religious group known as the fellowship in a place calledo te frat house for jesus. uf probablyheard of the home where some members of congress live, drug senator john enson whose roommates intervened after learning he was having an affair with a top aide'sex wife. boyer examines the fellowship, its founder doug coe and his relationship with some disreputable folks. this made me wince after mike wise was suspended for putting a fake scoop on twitter. at t the paper got into trouble over a twitter hoax. but jonathan kapart was a victim. he posted something for the newspaper after seeing a tweet from jack kimble saying cost two wars without costing the taxpayers a dime. he accused him of stunning ignorance except that, well, there is noco ngressman jack kimble, it was a bogus account the. next time, jonathan, check the google.
here's what i didn't like, sean hannifty is no fan of barak obama and he's perfectly entitled to bash him night after night. but here's how the fox news host analyz obama's recent speech in ohio. >> the president did have a rare moment of honesty during his speech and i hope voters around the country are watching this. >> taxes are scheduled to go up substantially next year. for everybody. >> all right, that's right. i know the anoind one will make sure that that happens. >> but just a second. here's a little bit more of what obama said. >> under the tax plan passed by the last administration, taxes are seduled to go up substantially next year. for everybody. by the way, this was by design. >> so hannity's careful editing happens to leave out obama's explanation that the bush administrati had arranged for the tax cuts to expire in 201 not to mention that obama wants to extend the tax cuts for 98% of americans while ending them
for the wealthiest taxpayers. isn't that kind of editing, what's the word, deceptive? a tip of the hat to the daily show for catching that ione. i had toitdre this though it's seriously strange. tommy chstopher, a writer for website, was in an ambulance this week whene started tweeting his own heart attack. with such twitter dates as paramedics think i will live. now, christopher says those who knew me would get a kick out of it and those who didn't would see it as a wacky new media story. right. and heays what began as a tweegt quickly morphed into a backy, world weird web story completely devoid of iron re, but not completely devoidf laughs. he became fodder for jay leno. >> in what may be the strangest tweet of the week, a white house political reporter tweeted about attack.heart